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'You're Hopelessly Predestined If You'
A Word Of Clarification Here Is That There Is Always Hope From
God's Point Of View.
It Is Only Hopeless, When On This Side Of Heaven One Refuses
To Believe The Plain Words Of Christ.
These People Are Predestined To Failure And Have Shot Themselves In The Foot
Before (Pre)They Have Reached Their Destination.
Some However, Maintain That 'The Majority Are Hopeless Because God
Determines So.'
This Is Predestination And Fatalism Which Are Not Scriptural
"Predestination and Fatalism do not differ in the main. They
differ only in this, that with predestination the external determination of human action proceeds from a rational Being, and
with fatalism from an irrational one. But in either case the result is the same: that happens which must happen."
(Arthur Schopenhauer, On Human Nature, Free-Will and Fatalism.
But Even The Distinction That Schopenhauer Makes Doesn't
Apply In Differentiating Predestination From Stoic Fatalism Because In Stoicism The Logos, Is Not 'Irrational' But Is The
Constant Principle Of Two Becoming One, Or The Interaction Of Opposites And Our Accepting Of Its Course.
When 'that happens which must happen', We Are Not Dealing
With A Loving Personal God.
Marcus Aurelius, A Stoic Says This: Each thing is of like form
from everlasting and comes round again in its cycle. -- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, II, 14
This Thought Began With Heraclitus, Who Taught That The
Logos Could Be Understood And Followed By Seeing How Opposites Interacted-Flux Of Nature (Two Uniting). Their Limitation
Here, Is That They Saw Part Of The Process But Didn't Understand The Similarities And Distinctions, And That The Person Behind It Who Would Take On Flesh (Two Uniting), Would Demonstrate That Both Groups Were Sinners, (Two Uniting), And In Need Of A Saviour.
(Romans 11:24:32; Acts 13:46ff) Would Bring Believing Jew And Gentile Together (Ephesians 2) Through His Death (Two Uniting),
Would Be Head Of The Church (Two Uniting), Which Is His Body (Ephesians 5:32).
"Heraclitus was the earliest Greek thinker to make logos a central
concept. He urges us to pay attention to the logos, which "governs all things" and yet is also something we "encounter
every day." We should probably emphasize the linguistic connections of logos when interpreting Heraclitus's thought. In our
efforts to understand the world, we should look to our language and the order embodied in it, rather than to scientific or
religious views that neglect this.
In the 3d century BC the proponents of Stoicism borrowed the
idea of logos from Heraclitus (neither Plato nor Aristotle had given the term prominence) and used it for the immanent ordering
principle of the universe - represented, at the level of language, by humankind's ordered discourse. Nature and logos are
often treated as one and the same; but logos is nature's overall rational structure, and not all natural creatures have logos,
or reason, within them. Humans are urged to "live consistently with logos...
The 6th-century BC Greek philosopher Heraclitus was the first
to use the term Logos in a metaphysical sense. He asserted that the world is governed by a firelike Logos, a divine force
that produces the order and pattern discernible in the flux of nature. He believed that this force is similar to human reason
and that his own thought partook of the divine Logos.
In Stoicism, as it developed after the 4th century BC, the Logos
is conceived as a rational divine power that orders and directs the universe; it is identified with God, nature, and fate."
The Article At The Top By Schopenhauer, Concerning
Human Nature, Free-Will and Fate Is Not Antagonistic To Fatalism And Predestination But Instead Defends Them Making Little
Distinctions Between The Two.
Those That Argue That Anything The Greeks Thought Ought
To Come To Nought And Be Disbelieved Should Be Challenged To Give Up The Belief In Predestination And Fatalism Because
The Stoics And Hindus Believed It Long Before They Did, Though They Believed In gods.
Rejecting Any Precedent Is Not What I Believe However, Because
God Has Made Some Of His Truths Plain To Even Unbelievers. (Romans 1)
There Is A Big Difference Between the logos Of
Stoicism/Calvinism And True Biblical Christianity.
The Logos Of True Christianity Is About A Person That Loves
The Whole World Not Just A Minority In It. (John 12:32; John 3:16; 2 Corinthians 5:14ff; Acts 17:30), And This Personal Relationship
Is What Makes Him Distinct From His Creation.
" For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all,
and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." 2 Corinthians
5:14ff
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him; and without
him was not anything made that hath been made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended
it not. ...9 There was the true light, [even the light] which lighteth every man, coming
into the world. (John 1, ASV)
The Following Chart Compares Stoicism To Views That Present
Part Of The Truth But Not The Whole Truth.
This Is A Work In Progress So More Will Be Added Later.
| Stoicism: |
Half Truths: |
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Marcus Aurelius A Stoic:
"If the gods care not for me or my children,
there is a reason for it"
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Calvinist:
'If God Care Not For Me Or My Children, There Is A Reason For It.'
-Limited Atonement
The Whole Truth Is, God Died For All But Not All Will Receive It.
"15 And he died for all, that those who live should
no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." 2 Corinthians
5:15ff |
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The controlling intelligence understands its own nature, and what it
does, and whereon it works. -- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, VI, 5
This Sounds Like Self Consciousness.
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8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are
my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55)
But The Rrrest Of The Story:
6 Seek the Lord while he may be found; call
on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to
the Lord, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon. (Isaiah 55)
Now Wouldn't It Be Deceptive And Cruel To Make This Offer Appear To Be For Anyone,
As It Does, But Really Mean For The Chosen Few? |
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Each thing is of like form from everlasting and comes round again in
its cycle. -- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, II, 14
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"What has been
will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. 10 Is there anything of which
one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time....
15 Whatever is has already been, and what will be
has been before; and God will call the past to account. ..."
Ecclesiastes 1:5:-10-3:15
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction..(Ga.
6)
This Looks Like A Process, That Repeats Itself Over And Over And Getting
Along In Life Is Just About Knowing That You Reap What You Sow And What Goes Around Literally Comes Around.
But The Rrrrest Of The Story Is:
"the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit
will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will
reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good
to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers." (Ga. 6)
Now Why Would God Expect Us To Love All If He Only Loves A Few?
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Nothing happens to anybody which he is not fitted by nature to bear.
-- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, V, 18
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"13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to
man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he
will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. " (1 Corinthians 10)
But Scripture Goes On To The Rrrrrrrrrrest Of The Story:
'14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.' (Ibid)
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Whatever may befall thee, it was preordained for thee from everlasting.
-- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, X, 5
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"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and
create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things. ... 9 "Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who
is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, 'What are you making?' Does your
work say, 'He has no hands'? 10 Woe to him who says to his father, 'What have you begotten?' or to his mother, 'What
have you brought to birth?' (Isaiah 45)
Also Romans Nine.
However, Calvinists Again Miss The Other Side And Fail To See How The
Two Sides Unite.
"But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver,
but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from
these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
(2 Timothy 2; KJV )
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Whatever happens at all happens as it should; thou wilt find this true,
if thou shouldst watch narrowly. -- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, IV 10
In Other Words, 'If You Have A Narrow Mind You Will Agree With him.'
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There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under
heaven: ...14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it.
God does it so that men will revere him. 15 Whatever is has already been, and what will be has been before; and God
will call the past to account. 18 I also thought. (Ecclesiastes 3)
The Rrrrrrrrrest Of The Story?
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Are We No More Self Aware Than Plants And Animals?
All that happens is as usual and familiar as the rose in spring and the
crop in summer. -- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, IV, 44
Each thing is of like form from everlasting and comes round again in
its cycle. -- Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, II, 14 |
19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits
them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything
is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3)
21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of
the animal goes down into the earth?" 22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because
that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him? (Ecc. 3)
The View Of Ecclesiastes Makes Man No More Self Determining Than
Soulless Animals.
What Is Plant That Thou Art Mindful Of Him?
No
"What Is Man That Thou Art Mindful Of Him "
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"Stoicism is characterized as a philosophy of materialism, pantheism,
and fatalism. It is materialistic in the sense that everything that exists possesses corporeality and is ultimately traced
back to God. The Stoic God, redolent of Plato's Timaeus, is said to be the "body" of the universe whereby God is its
soul. This is how Stoicism becomes pantheistic in its understanding of the relationship between the universe and God. It further
portrays a fatalistic universe by declaring that everything that occurs happens by necessity. Nothing is left to any libertarian
volition. This has caused its followers to adopt a sort of apathy toward our fatalistic universe.
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This apathy, say the Stoics, is characterized as "accepting the will
of God", something very reminiscent of Christianity. Hence, many make the association of Stoic fatalism with the Christian
doctrine of predestination (e.g. the Augustinian-Calvinist view)."
The Calvinist Will Say That They Are Not To Be Apathetic Because He
Commands Them Not To.
But If Their Concept Of God Loving Some Rejecting Most Is True, How
Can He Expect Them To Love More Than He Does?
Well They Say, God Doesn't Tell Us Who He Hates So We Must Love All. |
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Man Is In The 'Image Of God':
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish
of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the
ground." 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."
(Genesis 1)
We Are In the Image Of A God Who Says, 'Us' And 'Our'
14 God said to Moses, "~I am who I am.
This is what you are to say to the Israelites: '~I am has sent me to you.'" 15 God also said to Moses, "Say
to the Israelites, 'The Lord, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent
me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation. " (Exodus
3:14)
God Who Says, 'I am who I am', And 'I am has sent me to you',
Has Revealed Here That Being In His Image Includes Being Able To Not Only Say, 'He Is', But 'I Am'.
"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that
cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11)
Jesus Says: "Before Abraham Was, I Am." (John 8)
The Jews Didn't Attempt To Stone Him Just Because He Said 'I
Am'-Eyw Eimi, But Because He Was, The I Am, Before Abraham.
It Was His Eternal I Am-Ness That Rouled Them.
We Are In The Image Of God At Conception.
This Is How We Should Argue Against Abortion.
If We Are Not In The Image Of God At Conception Then Abortion
Is No Worse Than Pulling Up A Weed Or Killing An Animal.
Killing Animals Is Wrong, But Not Comparable To The Killing
Of Man.
But That Doesn't Stop Mindless New Agers And Evolutionists From
Protecting The Animals More Than
The Unborn.
We
Can Say 'I Am' As Well.
Saying This Is Self Awareness And Consciousness. Through The
Use Of Personal Pronouns We Distinguish Ourselves From Others And Soulless And Mindless Plants And Animals.
If We Have No More Say Than Plants And Animals Then Our
Image That Comes From God That Allows Us To Say, 'I Am' Is Meaningless, And Places Us With The Plants And Animals.
If God's Plan Doesn't Include The Exercise Of Our 'I Am-Ness'
Then We Are Mere Machinations, Not Thinking, Choosing Individuals.
With Self Awareness Comes Self Determination And The Drawing
Of All Men (Jn. 12:32), By God, Enables All Men Self Awareness And Self Determination.
I Am-Ness Means That I'm Not A Mindless Participant In God's
Plan, And The Majority Removed From God's Plan But 'I Am' Therefore I Think, I Choose, I Feel. Because I Am Self Aware.
Murdering Man Is Wrong, Because It Takes Away His Self Awareness
And Self Determination And Because He Is In God's Image.
If This Isn't The Case We Ought To Hold God In Contempt For What
Hitler Did.
Now Of Course We Know That God Influences Us, And His Drawing
Enables Us To Choose.
Now If We Are Irresistably Subject To The Influences Over Us, Then
Monsters Like Hitler Can Blame At Least Three Germans, One Englishman, One Austrian And One Divine Being For What
He Did: Martin Luther (The Jews And Their Lies), Nietzhe (Superman), Darwin (Origin Of Species) And Freud Who
Blamed It On Sex And One's Mother.
But Truth Is, We Are Responsible For Our Choices And No Influences,
Including God Are Irresistable.
God Wouldn't Give Man This 'I Am-Ness But Then Deny His Ability
To Be As He Was Created.
Concerning Stoicism,
Not Only Does Marcus Aurelius A Stoic mention 'gods' But He Speaks
Over And Over Of Predestination.
Now One Can Find Quotes From Aurelius That Appear To Be About
Free Will, But These Can Only Be The Surface Result Of A Prior And Irrestible Determinism That Stoics And Calvinists Believe
In.
It Is No Different Than A Calvinist Claiming That We Are Predestined
But Still Maintaining That We Are Responsible For Our Decisions And God Is Love. Both Are Contradictory Statements.
"The Brahmin philosophers also express the unalterable fixity
of innate character in a mystical fashion. They say that Brahma, when a man is produced, engraves his doings and sufferings
in written characters on his skull, and that his life must take shape in accordance therewith. They point to the jagged edges
in the sutures of the skull-bones as evidence of this writing; and the purport of it, they say, depends on his previous life
and actions. The same view appears to underlie the Christian, or rather, the Pauline, dogma of Predestination."
However, I Don't Believe In Predestination And Certainly
Not To The Exclusion Of Man's Autonomy After The Resistable Drawing Of God.
If Our Image Isn't A Finite Reflection Of His Eternal Self
Consciousness, Self Determination And I Am-Ness, But Rather Machinations, Then Wouldn't That Say Something
Of Our Maker, In Whose Image We Are?
Things Would Be Likened To An Assembly Line Where Machines Build Machines.
Because If We Don't Have Self Awareness And Self Determination Then Neither Does God, In
Whose Image We Are.
Wouldn't It Then Have Been More Appropriate For God
To Say:
Let Things Take Their Course Rather Than 'Let Us Make Man In
Our Image...'
Rather Than Tell Them 'I Am Who I Am Has Sent You.'
I Am Whatever I Am And Whatever Will Be, Will Be.
Before Abraham Was, that happens which must happen.
'No Religions Rises Above Its Concept Of God Or The Universe.'
While At A Krishna Temple The Host Talked About His Religion. I Asked Him About His
God, Krishna Stealing Womens Clothing And Making Them Beg To Get Them Back.
He Adoringly Smiled And Said, Well He's The Supreme Enjoyer. This Is Why Even The Krishna
Devotees Don't Use Krishna As An Example, They Use Christ.
God Is Not Going To Command His Creatures To Be More Loving Than He Is.
If He Loves Only Some, Then Why Would He Expect Us To Love All?
Bj Maxwell
05/09/2007
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