Violence Of The Hams And The Preachers Of Another Jesus

Violence Of The Hams

(The Real Sequel To 'Silence Of The Lambs')

This Is The Real And Future Sequel To Silence Of The Lambs. Many Things Are Communicated When Christians Are Silent, None Of Them Being Good And It Leads To All Kinds Of Bad Things.

New Lyrics: Bj Maxwell

Constructive Criticism And Support By Cynthia Maxwell

Thankyou Lord For This Gift

Feel Free To Post Unaltered Anywhere.

Old Lyrics In ' '

New Lyrics In Black

Links In Green

Hold Down The Shift Key, Click Here, Then Minimize To Sing New Lyrics With Music.

To Hear The Rap, Scroll Down To End Of These Song Lyrics.

To The Tune, 'Sounds Of Silence.', By Simon And Garfunkel

Violence Of The Hams

(The True Sequel To Silence Of The Lambs)

New Lyrics:

Hello Silence 'My Old Friend'

I Hear Your Deafening Roar 'Again'

Still A Torrent Rages In Me

Leaves Its Marks While They Are 'Sleeping'

The Storm In Me, Won't Retreat And

Becomes Crazy, Parodies

Leading To Their 'Sounds Of Silence'

In Karodies We're Having Fun

With My Wife And Triune One

Before The Glow Of A Monitor

Why I'm Awake, I'm Not Quite Sure

Then My Thoughts Were Grabbed By The Flash Of Scripture's Light

Explained Their Quiet

(2 Cor. 11:1-15)

And Their Lives, Of Compliance

(Acts 20:27-30)

And In The Puter Light I Saw

Ten Million People Maybe More

People Liking Without Typing

"People" Read Not Understanding

Thought Provoking Songs, For People That Will Not Think

(Mark 12:30; Col. 3:10 1 Pete 3:15)

Or Click The Link,

To Dispel The Blindness

Sheep, said Christ,'You do not know "

(Matt. 7:6)

Violence Of The Hams Doth Grow

(1 Tim. 4:1-5;2 Tim. 3:1-9; Jude 1:1-11)

Heed Gods Words To Be Ready

(2 Cor. 11:1-15)

Take His Hand To Remain Steady

(Hebrews 12:1-3; Phil. 2:5-11)

God's Harder Words Like Heavy Hailstones Fell

Resulting

In More Sounds Of Silence

Then The Wicked Shepherds Fed
On The Silent Lambs They Led

(Acts 20:27-30)

All The Brute Beasts Are Just Warnings

(Romans 1:18-23; Jude 1:1-11; Jude 1:10,11)

See The Pacts That Are Forming

(Matt. 7:6)

God's Songs Warn, The Words Of Non Profits

Are Linked On Phase-book Walls

With Vehement Calls

(Acts 20:27-30)

Lamb Chops For The Wolves, Pigs And Lions

Oh My!!

(2 Cor. 11:1-15)

Bj Maxwell

To Hear The Rap,

Hold Down The Shift Key, Click Here, Then Minimize To Rap New Lyrics Above With Music.

Hannibal The Cannibal At End Of Song.

05/17/2012

05/18/2012

05/21/2012

02/04/2013

02/05/2013

"For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you THE WHOLE WILL OF GOD. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be SHEPHERDS of the CHURCH OF GOD, WHICH HE BOUGHT WITH HIS OWN BLOOD. 29 I know that after I leave, SAVAGE WOLVES will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even FROM YOUR OWN NUMBER men will arise and DISTORT THE TRUTH in order to draw away disciples after them." (Acts 20:27-30)

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." (Matt. 7:6)

"I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. 2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3 But I am afraid that JUST AS EVE WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENTS CUNNING, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 FOR IF SOMEONE COMES TO YOU AND PREACHES A JESUS OTHER THAN THE JESUS WE PREACHED, or if you receive a DIFFERENT SPIRIT from the one you received, or a DIFFERENT GOSPEL from the one you accepted, YOU PUT UP WITH IT easily enough. 5 But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." 6 I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way. 7 Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so. 10 As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 FOR SUCH MEN ARE FALSE APOSTLES, DECEITFUL WORKMEN, MASQUERADING AS APOSTLES OF CHRIST. 14 And no wonder, for SATAN HIMSELF MASQUERADES AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. 15 It is NOT SURPRISING, THEN, IF HIS SERVANTS MASQUERADE AS SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. THEIR END WILL BE WHAT THEIR ACTIONS DESERVE." (2 Cor. 11:1-15)

　　"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30)

"10 and have put on the new self, which is being RENEWED IN KNOWLEDGE IN THE IMAGE OF ITS CREATORrenewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator." (Col. 3:10)

"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." (1 Peter 3:15)

Under Construction:

Who Do Men Say That I Am?

Click Here

The Preachers Of Another Jesus Are As Abundant As Cockroaches, And As Hard To Deal With Too, But Many Of Their Arguments Against The Plain Sense Of Scripture Are Similar, So Dealing With One False Teacher, Deals With Many. One Such Preacher Of Another Jesus Is Thomas McElwain, 'Beloved Non Conformist' Who We Debated At Facebook.

Changing Who Christ Is Changes The Whole Gospel Message And Then We Have Another Gospel, A Gospel Which Cannot Save.

"Therefore I said to you that you will DIE IN YOUR SINS; for unless you believe that I AM HE, you will DIE IN YOUR SINS...58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." (John 8:24,58)

One Reason Is, That Those That Diminish Christ By Denying That He Is God Therefore Diminish His Sacrifice, Which Is Only As Good As The One Making The Sacrifice, And Then They Need To Supplement Their 'Salvation' With Works To Take Up The Slack For A Less Than Eternal Sacrifice. Then They Get The Anathema/Doomed To Eternal Punishment From The Apostle Paul For Changing Christ And Correspondingly, The Gospel. (Galatians 1:8,9)

So Here's My Refutation Of The Article Thomas Included With His Other False Teachings. I Will Eventually Index And Link My Counter Arguments To His Attempted Refutations Based On The Particular Scripture Examined. So Click The Links For The Particular Verses And/Or The Subject You Want To Look At.

Index Of Scripture:

Luke 7:14-15-Omnipotence Of Christ/

Matthew 28:20; 18:20 -Omnipresence Of Christ/Genesis 1:26 -God Using Plural PERSONal Pronouns/

Isaiah 48:12,13,16-Plurality Of Divine Persons Interacting/Revelation 1:8-Alpha And Omega; I Am He/Acts 7:59-Jesus Standing At The Right Hand Of God The Father/John 20:26-29-Thomas Saying To Jesus, 'My Lord And My God/Matthew 16:16-The Begotten Son Of God Does Mean God The Son/Matthew 9:18-Worship Of Christ Does Imply Deity/

Hebrews 1:8;-`But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God...Therefore God, Thy God...'/

Luke 7:14-15-Omnipotence Of Christ

Article Says: This story shows that Jesus had the power to raise the dead to life. He is not the only prophet mentioned in the Bible with such power from God. Such power DOES NOT IMPLY OMNIPOTENCE. It only implies God-given authority." (Unitarian Answers)

The Quote Above, Put Together By Muslim Activist Thomas McElwain/'Beloved Non Conformist' Attacks The Omnipotence Of Christ In An Attempt To Show That He Is Not God Because These Powers Were Only Given To Him By God The Father.

What He/Thomas Rejects Outright Is Philippians Two, Which Says That Christ Being Equal To God The Father Temporarily Laid Aside His Powers, So As To Take On The Form Of A Servant And Became Dependent On God The Father During This Time, To Show How Loving Subjection To Another Is Lived Out And To Die For Our Sins. Thomas, Wrongly Takes That As A Testament To Christ Being A Great Prophet But Not God, As His Previous Islamic Influences Have Preconditioned Him To Believe.

The Problem Is That If God The Father Gave Him/Christ The Power To Raise Folks From The Dead, Even Raising Himself/Christ, And This Is The Whole Story, Then How Does A Dead Man, Who Is Not God, Raise Himself From The Dead, If He Is Truly Dead. If He Is Not Really Dead And Raises Himself, Its A Farce And He Cannot Then Claim To Have Given His Life For Us. But If He Was Truly Physically Dead And Raised Himself From The Dead, Then This Proves That He Preexisted And Had A Life Prior To His Taking On The Flesh, And That This Person Is Who Raised His Body From The Dead.

Scripture Says That All Three Persons, Christ, The Spirit And God The Father Raised Christ From The Dead.

"Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I WILL RAISE IT AGAIN in three days."

20 The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21 BUT THE TEMPLE HE HAD SPOKEN OF WAS HIS BODY.

22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said.

Then they believed the Scripture

and the words that Jesus had spoken." (John 2:19-22)

In Fact Scripture Tells Us What Christ Was Doing While His Body Lie In The Grave. (Ephesians 4; 1 Peter 3)

So Jesus Raising Himself From The Dead Is A Testament To His Omnipotence.

Islamic Article Goes On:

Luke 4:39-55. In this story Jesus has power to heal and authority over devils, who bear witness that he is `the Christ, the Son of God'. Such power, delegated by God, does not imply omnipotence. It only implies God-given authority.

Luke 7:14-15. This story shows that Jesus had the power to raise the dead to life. He is not the only prophet mentioned in the Bible with such power from God. Such power does not imply omnipotence. It only implies God-given authority.

Matthew 8:26-27. This story of power to still the storm, impressive as it is, does not imply that this was anything but power delegated to Jesus from God. There is no intimation of omnipotence. For God to give a man such power is not to make that man into God Himself.

1 John 5:11-12, 20. This text speaks of no life whatsoever which is not given by God. Life that is given by God, although it be in Christ, does not imply that Jesus possesses eternal life in such a way to make him God. The text does not state or imply this.

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Matthew 28:20; 18:20 -Omnipresence Of Christ

`I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.' This is not in fact a claim of omnipresence. It is a claim of immediate and direct access for believers. The claim is no different than that for the Shiite Imam in occultation, and may not be very different than the Jewish claim for Elijah and the Muslim claim for Enoch (Khidr). There is no implication of deity.

Matthew 18:20. `For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.' This is not omnipresence either. It is in fact even more limited than Matthew 28:20, since there are more conditions: the presence of at least two believers, the purpose of gathering (for worship?), and the invocation of the name of Jesus. There is no implication of deity." (Unitarian Answers.)

Now This Unitarian Article, Refers To These Verses Because Allegedly They Are In A Little Bitty Book By McDowell Called, 'More Than A Carpenter. I Personally Wouldn't Use These Verses To Demonstrate The Trinity But Here Goes.

Now I Would Say That Yes, A Certain Situation Has To Be Present First Before Christ Is Present In This Special Way, But This Doesn't Say That He Is Absent Otherwise.

What Many Unbelievers And Heretics Fail To Realize Is That Omnipresence Is Not Pantheism. Omnipresence, Unlike Pantheism Doesn't Teach That Christ Is Everywhere Equally And In The Same Way And That God Is the Universe.

Obviously, God The Father In All His Glory Is On The Throne, With Christ At His Right Hand, And 'Right Hand' Means Equality.

The Writer Of This Refutation Doesn't Seem To Realize This.

Colossians Says That Christ Holds All Things Together. (Colossians 1:15-17)

Obviously Christ Is Present Everywhere In Some Capacity For This To Be Possible.

Christ Is The Nuclear Binding Force That Scientists Cannot Explain And That Keeps This World From Blowing Up Into A Gigantic Nuclear Explosion.

Here The Gathering Of Believers Aren't Necessary For Christ Himself To Hold All Things Together.

I Like The Partial Definition Of PanENtheism, Not Pantheism:

"Panentheism (from Greek πᾶν (pân) "all"; ἐν (en) "in"; and θεός (theós) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that God personally exists, interpenetrates every part of nature and timelessly extends beyond it. Panentheism is differentiated from pantheism, which holds that God is not a distinct being but is synonymous with the universe.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

However, What I Don't Believe About PanENtheism Is The Following:

"Panentheism maintains that God has two "polls": actuality and potentiality. God's actual existence and nature is changing, but his potential, what he can become, does not change.

Panentheism is unbiblical since it denies God’s transcendent nature, says that God is changing, confuses creation with God, denies miracles, and denies the incarnation of Christ along with the atoning sacrifice."

http://carm.org/panentheism

Christ Physically Left This Earth So As To Send Another Comforter, The Holy Spirit, Not Mohammed. (John 14)

But The Triune God To Be A Triunity Requires That The Characteristics Of God Be Present In Each Person Of The Triunity.

This Means That Each Person, Father, Son And Holy Spirit Possess, Omnipotence, Omnipresence And Omniscience.

The Only Time One Would Not Know Something (Omniscience), Is If They Chose Not To Know (Philippians 2:5-11)

God In The Garden Said, 'Adam, Where Are You?'

Jacob Wrestled With God. Was It That Jacob Was Really That Strong Or That God Chose Not To Use All His Powers.

Did God Cease To Be God Because He Didn't Pin Jacob Instantly?

God Forbid.

How Did Jacob Even See God To Wrestle Him Seeing That 'No Man Hath Seen God' And Lived?

Obviously, Jacob Was Wrestling God The Word, The Second Person Of The Trinity.

"No one has ever seen God,

but God the One and Only,

who is at the Father's side, has made him known." (John 1:18)

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Genesis 1:26 -God Using Plural PERSONal Pronouns

Next, It Appears That The Author Just Gets Downright Lazy And Resorts To 'But Theology'. 'Yes, But What About This'. He Refers To The Scripture Regarding God Saying 'Us' And 'Our' In Regards To The Creation Of Man And The Tower Of Babel Story.

"Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26)

And Then Thomas Lazily Answers With,

"It is true that there are a handful of texts referring to God in the first person plural, generally in the form of `Let's'. But generally, in thousands of cases, the Bible refers to God with a singular. This use of the plural hardly supports the doctrine of the trinity. If anything, plurality would support polytheism."

Not Only Is This A Lazy Answer, But It Again Reveals How The Author Doesn't Understand The Concept Of The Trinity At All.

Elohim Is Plural i.e. Gods, But Yahweh Is Singular i.e. Lord, So When Combined As Lord God Often In Scripture It Shows A Plurality Within A Singularity Which Is Exactly What The Trinity Is. This Is What Michael Esses Shows In His Book 'Jesus In Genesis.'

In Fact If A Person Isn't Lazy They Can Find Out That In The Bible The Word 'One' Often Is Showing Unity Rather Than, One As Opposed To Two.

Ephesians Shows This Well.

"4 There is ONE body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- 5 ONE LORD, one faith, ONE BAPTISM; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Ephesians 4)

We Know That 'One' In A Few Instances Here Means Unity Not One As Opposed To Two. There Is One Body, Many Members, One Lord, Three Persons, One Baptism Of Water And Spirit...

The Responses In This Article Clearly Shows A Man That Just Doesn't Want To Believe, Not An Honest Work Of Scholarship On His Part.

Bj

Trinitarian claim: `The biblical evidence in favour of our position shows that early references attributed to God are found in the plural form: Genesis 1:26: "Let us make man in our image." Genesis 3:22: "Behold, the man has become like one of Us." Genesis 11:7: "Come, let Us go down."' Ralph Larson, Water As A Flood, in Land Marks February 1994, 16.

Unitarian Answer: It is true that there are a handful of texts referring to God in the first person plural, generally in the form of `Let's'. But generally, in thousands of cases, the Bible refers to God with a singular. This use of the plural hardly supports the doctrine of the trinity. If anything, plurality would support polytheism.

Genesis 1:26 uses a third person masculine singular in reference to God. If every person in the world who has ever said, `Well, let's see now,' has thereby become a trinity, I suppose this text might be construed as evidence for the trinity of God.

The words in Genesis 3:22 and 11:7 are addressed by God to celestial listeners. Genesis 3:24 suggests that these might by angels. There are one or two similar references in the plural which Ralph Larson does not mention.

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The Next Quote Of This Islamic Article That I Will Be Dealing Is Concerning Isaiah 48.

The Quote Is Below, But Essentially The Author Who Is Committing Eisegesis/Reading Into The Text His Islamic Bias Will Show On This One.

He Will Attempt To Say That Only One Figure In Isaiah 48 Is Divine And Is Sending A Man Only.

So It Should Be Easy To Get To The Truth Of These Scriptures.

This Author Didn't Even Want To Quote The Verses Probably For Fear Of The Average Reader Seeing The Obvious.

Here It Is:

"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel

whom I called ;

I AM HE, I AM THE FIRST, I AM ALSO THE LAST. 13 "Surely My hand

founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens ; When I

call to them, they stand together....16 "

Come near to Me, listen to this : From the first I have

not spoken in secret,

FROM THE TIME IT TOOK PLACE, I WAS THERE . And now

the Lord

GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit." (Isaiah 48:12,13,16)

Lets Look At The Persons Involved.

What Statements Can Be Attributed To Each Person?

The First Person:

I AM HE, I AM THE FIRST, I AM ALSO THE LAST. 13 "Surely My hand

founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens ; When I

call to them, they stand together

FROM THE TIME IT TOOK PLACE, I WAS THERE

This First Person Is Obviously God, Who Is The First And Last, Says 'I Am He', Creates The Earth And Spreads Out The Heavens And From The Time It Took Place, I Was There, Which Rules Out Any Mere Human.

The Second Person:

And now

the Lord

GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit

Obviously This Second Person i.e. 'Lord God' Is God.

There Are Numerous Truths In The New Testament Stated By Christ, Which Connects Him With The First Person Mentioned In Isaiah 48 Here:

A) Christ Is The First And The Last As God Is. (Isaiah 48:12; Rev. 1; 22; Isaiah 44:6)

"Thus says the LORD, the

King of Israel AND his

Redeemer, the LORD of hosts : 'I am the

first and I am the last, And there is no God

besides Me." (Isaiah 44:6)

'Blessed Redeemer Jesus Is Mine...'

B) Christ's Hand Founded The Earth (Hebrews 1: ; Isaiah 48:13; 1 Cor. 8)

C) Christ Was Sent By God The Father Before His Birth (John 17:3,5; Isaiah 48:16)

D) He Existed Before His Incarnation. (John 17:5; Proverbs 8:22-31; Is. 48:16)

E) Christ Is The God Who Says 'I Am He' In The Old Testament. (John 8:24; Isaiah 48:12; Deuteronomy 32:39,43-Dead Sea Scrolls And Septuagint )

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/brenton/lxx/Page_277.html

This Muslim Author Still Doesn't Understand The Trinity Let Alone Refute It. He Points Out That It Cannot Be A Trinity Because Two Persons Are Involved. C'mon, This Is Christianity 101, The Trinity Equals Three Persons In One God And So Showing Two Divine Persons Interacting Only Reinforces The Teaching Of The Trinity And 'God Cannot Send Himself' Tells Us That This Author Doesn't Have A Clue As To What The Trinity Is. God The Father Sent God The Son And God The Holy Spirit And That Is Exactly What Jesus Says In The New Testament.

Article Says:

"Trinitarian claim: `In Isaiah 48, the One who identifies Himself as the Redeemer and the First and the Last (compare Revelation 1:11) says in verse 16: "The Lord God, and His Spirit, have sent Me [the Redeemer]".' Ibid.

Unitarian Answer: The author infers that the mention of three figures implies a divine trinity. This is known as eisegesis, reading one's own ideas into a text. First of all, the Redeemer spoken of here is defined in verse 17 as God Himself. This cannot then be the referent of `me' in verse 16, because God has sent `me'. God and `me' are two distinct figures, and the Redeemer is God and not `me'. In Isaiah, as in some of the other prophets, the direct quotation of God and the prophet's own reference to himself in the first person, are sometimes difficult to distinguish and can lead to confusion.

We are left with God and His Spirit sending a human figure, not the Redeemer. God and His Spirit are not stated here to be distinct persons in a divine Trinity. The use of the conjunction `and' does not necessarily imply two distinct entities, and if it did, it would still not imply that His Spirit was a co-equal divine person."

======================================================

Thomas/Non Conformist Says:

So according to Bj's quotation from John 8:24, you and he both are going to die in your sins, simply because you can't tell the difference between the one true God and Jesus.

Bj:

Actually, I've Posted A Few Times That Jesus Says, I Am He In That Chapter, Then I Proceeded To Show In Scripture Who Says, 'I Am He' And It Is God Himself, So Both Heidi And I Know Who Christ Is.

But For The Ones That Didn't Read That Message I Posted The Few Times Before, Here It Is:

"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel

whom I called ;

I AM HE, I AM THE FIRST, I AM ALSO THE LAST. 13 "Surely My hand

founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens ; When I

call to them, they stand together....16 "

Come near to Me, listen to this : From the first I have

not spoken in secret,

FROM THE TIME IT TOOK PLACE, I WAS THERE . And now

the Lord

GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit." (Isaiah 48:12,13,16)

The One That Says, I Am He, Here Is Divine.

"Therefore I said to you that YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS; FOR UNESS YOU BELIEVE I AM HE, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS." 25 So they were saying to Him, "Who are You?" Jesus said to them, "

What have I been saying to you from the beginning?" (John 8:24ff)

The One That Says, 'I Am He' Here Is Christ.

"Behold, Behold That I AM HE, And There Is No God Beside Me....Rejoice Ye Gentiles, With His People, And Let All The Angels Of God Worship Him."

The One That Says, 'I Am He' Here Is God

Deut. 32:39,43 The Greek Septuagint:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/brenton/lxx/Page_277.html

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A Few Things Should Be Noted About The Muslim Author Of This Anti Christian Article, Which Is An Attempt To Refute Scripture That Refers To The Deity Of Christ.

His Understanding (The Muslim Author) Of The Bible Is Tainted By His Belief In The Quran Which Really Is A Reactionary Religion Responding To The Good And Bad In Christianity Really, Catholicism And Jews. Mormonism Does The Same Thing.

Now Granted Some Of Mohammed's Beefs Were Legitimate, Such As The Mariolatry And Hypocrisy Of Catholics And Jews. Even Appearing To Be Against The Trinity Because He Thought One Of The Persons Of The Trinity Was Mary. But Mohammeds Answers Were Way Off.

However, To Delegate Christ To A Mere Prophet While Still Maintaining That Mary Was A Virgin Is Quite A Curious Thing Seeing That They Deny The Deity Of Jesus. Now My Knowledge Of Islam Is Quite Superficial But One Thing Is For Sure, Anytime Someone Uses Another Religious Work To Interpret Another Religious Work, One Or Both Of Those Religious Works Are Going To Be Affected, Whether Its The Book Of Mormon, Historical Method, The NWT Or The Tao Te Ching.

When People Do This They Don't Believe The Plain Sense Of Scripture But Must Twist It To Fit Their Preconceived Notions.

So If The Plain Sense Makes Sense, Seek No Other Sense To Replace It, Lest You End Up With Nonsense.

Its Obvious That This Author Is Trying To Fit Christianity Into A Square Peg So It Is Compatible With His Islam, But Simply Stated They Are Opposed To Each Other.

This Author Is Selective About What He Reveals In His So Called Refutation Of The Deity Of Christ.

He Mentions Stephen Calling On The Lord Jesus, But Not The Fact That Jesus Was STANDING At The Right Hand Of God The Father While He Was Calling On Him.

"and he said, "Behold, I see the

heavens opened up and

the SON OF MAN STANDING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD." 57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and COVERED THEIR EARS and rushed at him with one impulse. 58 When they had

driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and

the witnesses

laid aside their robes at the feet of

a young man named Saul. 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he

called on the Lord and said, "LORD JESUS, RECEIVE MY SPIRIT!" (Acts 7)

This Not Only Places Christ On An Equal Level With The Father, Being On His Right Hand But The Jews Knew What He Was Saying And 'Covered Their Ears' And 'Rushed At Him' After Hearing That. Jews Who Knew Their Old Testament And What It Meant To Say Such A Thing, But Somehow This Muslim Author Still Doesn't Get It And Alleges That Stephen Didn't Say Anything Special.

This Verse Also Shows That Stephen Is Expecting Christ To Receive His Spirit, i.e., 'Receive My Spirit', Which Solomon Says Is God's Job, So Therefore Christ Is God.

"then the

dust will return to the earth as it was, and THE SPIRIT will RETURN TO GOD who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

God Is The Great Master Mind Of This Book We Call The Bible, And When Someone Tries To Deny One Verse, Another Two Or Three Verses Pop Up And Say The Same Thing. Its Like Whack A Mole, Go Ahead, Whack That Mole And Two More Will Pop Up In Its Place.

"By The Mouth Of Two Or Three Witnesses A Word Shall Be Established." (Bible)

Now There Are Many Silly People Out There That Take Any Mention Of Christ Being 'Man' Or The 'Son Of Man' And Say, 'Lookie There, He's A Man.'

Trinitarians Don't Deny That Jesus Is A Man And The Son Of Man, They Revel In The Fact That He Became A Man Like Us. (Philippians 2:5-11), But The Burden Of Proof Before The Muslim And The One That Denies The Plain Words Of The Bible Is To Show That Christ Is Only A Man Because When They Find That There Is No Verse That Says That, Then They Must Acknowledge That Christ Is Both God And Man. (1 Tim. 3:16)

The Muslim Author Of This Article Is Hoping That Those That Read This Article, Don't Know Their Bibles Very Well, And The Sad Part About It Is There Are Many That Don't Know Their Bibles Very Well And Will Be Duped By Him.

Theres A Saying That 'A Lie Will Get Halfway Around The World While The Truth Is Still Getting Its Shoes On.'

This Author Is Quoting Some Work By Josh McDowell That Is Dated At 1973, And 38 Years Have Passed Since Then And McDowell Has A Great Work Out Called, 'New Evidence That Demands A Verdict' Which Is Even Bigger And Better.

Article:

Trinitarian claim: `While Stephen was being stoned, he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" (Acts 7:59).' McDowell 1973, 13.

Unitarian Answer: The Trinitarian claim may be based here on the usage of the word Lord. Although the word Lord is often applied to God in the Bible, it is not limited to that use by any means. It is applied to Jesus in the sense of `sir' or `master' as well as to any number of people in courteous address. It is clear that the word Lord here refers to Jesus, but the word does not imply divinity.

The claim may depend, however, on Stephen's act of calling upon Jesus in this situation as an indication of his divinity. The author does not clarify what in fact here is supposed to prove that Jesus is God. Considering the fact that Stephen believed Jesus to have been crucified, resurrected and ascended into heaven, it is quite understandable that he should hope that Jesus would receive his spirit. That hope does not imply divinity, however. It only recognises the resurrection and ascension. Although, for example, most Muslims deny the crucifixion, all Muslims believe in the ascension and second return of Jesus without believing in his divinity. Exceptional events or powers do not automatically imply divinity.

http://www.al-islam.org/islaminthebible/8.htm

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"Thomas answered and said to Him, `My Lord and my God!' Jesus said to him, `Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed"' (John 20:26-29).

The Anti Christian Article That I've Been Critiquing, Comments On These Verses With An Old Argument And That Is That Thomas Is Not Speaking To Jesus When He Says, "My Lord And My God' But In Fact Is Making An Exclamation Of 'O, My Lord And O My God' With Excitement.

http://www.al-islam.org/islaminthebible/8.htm

Once I Get Done Laughing I'll Actually Look At The Verse And It Says:

Thomas answered and SAID TO HIM, `My Lord and my God!'

Did You Notice The CAPS? Thomas 'Said To Him' It Doesn't Say And Thomas Exclaimed, O My Lord...

See Heretics Think That The Scripture Wasn't Very Good At Communicating What It Really Meant And It Needs Their Help.

In Fact This Errant Author Wants To Retroactively Impose A 20th Century Expression i.e., 'Oh My God' Onto An Event That Happened Two Thousand Years Ago.

This Is No Better Than Having Jesus Saying, 'Narley Dude'.

This Author Wants Us To Believe That It Is There In The Greek.

Well Looking At My Greek Interlinear:

'Said To Him, The Lord Of Me And The God Of Me.

Doesn't Sound Anything Like An Exclamation, Not To Fail To Mention The Definite Article, 'The' Before Lord And Before God.

It Would Be Like One Of Those Comical Movies Where Someone Comes Over Here From India And Tries To Speak English.

Or Someone Inserting American Cliches Into The Spanish Language And When Asked, 'Que Paso' What's Happening, They Say 'Nothing Much' In Spanish Which Is "Nada Mucho"

Now How Does Jesus Respond?

"Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Believe What?, If Thomas Was Simply Making An Exclamation That Wouldn't Reveal What He Thinks About What He Was Seeing Other Than He Is Extremely Surprised.

I Don't Know Of Any Bible Version Out There That Would Even Suggest Such A Translation Of The Passage As The Author Of This Article Suggests, Except Maybe The Jehovah's Witness Bible, The NWT.

I'm Looking....

No, Not Even The JW's, A Cult That Denies The Deity Of Christ Follows This Authors Article, And Translates John Twenty The Way He Suggests. In Fact They Follow All The Rest Of The Translations That Have Thomas Saying To Jesus, 'The Lord Of Me And The God Of Me'. The JW's' NWT And Emphatic Diaglott In My Personal Library Follow The Rest Of The Translations.

"Trinitarian claim: "`Thomas answered and said to Him, `My Lord and my God!' Jesus said to him, `Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed"' (John 20:26-29). Jesus accepted Thomas's acknowledgement of him as God.' McDowell 1973, 14.

Unitarian Answer: This claim, like so many before it, is really based on a misunderstanding of the Bible because the claimant is referring to a translation. Much trouble could be avoided if Christians, like Jews and Muslims, printed their sacred books with the original language included. The adherents of those faiths become aware in that way at least of the fact that what they are reading in English is not authoritative. It is only a very fallible translation. Now the Greek text of the phrase `My Lord and my God!' uses the nominative form of both `Lord' and `God'. Since both of these are from the second declension singular, there is in Greek a vocative which is clearly different in form. Thus, if the words refer to the person addressed, they should be in the vocative. If the words refer to someone other than the person to whom they are spoken, they should be in the nominative case. Now in fact they are in the nominative, not the vocative. This suggests that they refer to some other personage than to the one to whom they are addressed. They are addressed to Jesus. So we may know that Jesus at least is not the `Lord' and `God' to whom Thomas refers. If the person to whom you exclaim `Oh, my Lord!' thereby becomes God, I am afraid that there must be thousands of new claimants to divinity every day.

This exclamation reveals Thomas's newly acquired faith in the resurrection of Jesus. That was the thing he doubted. There was never a question of whether or not Jesus was God. There was only a question of whether or not he was alive. This is what Thomas doubted, this is what Thomas saw with his own eyes and felt with his hands, and this is what those who did not see Jesus still believed. There is no blessing for those who believe something else (such as that Jesus is God). There is only a blessing for those who believe him to be living. Jesus does not accept Thomas's acknowledgement of him as God, because Thomas never acknowledged him as God. He only acknowledged him as living."

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Aldon Either Deal With The Scripture Or Refrain From Commenting. Commenting Isn't By Ignoring The Scripture Being Talked About And Introducing Your Own, Which BTW Doesn't Disprove The Deity Of Christ. The Only Time You Referred To The Actual Verses Being Spoken Of Is In The 'I Am' Statement And It Is Simple On Whether Its An Action Statement Or Not. If No Action Comes After 'I Am' Ego Eimi, Then There Is No Action And He Is Referring To His Existence Before Abraham And When Abraham Saw Him Which BTW Was Right Before The Destruction Of Sodom. The Jews Understood His 'I Am' Statement And Attempted To Stone Him, But You Don't See The Plain Text. Jesus Wasn't In The Loins Of His Father, He Was At The Right Hand Of God Being Sent Down. (Isaiah 48:16; Psalm 45:6,7; Gen. 1:26,27)

If Hebrews 7 Was Speaking Of Everyone Preexisting Then Jesus Couldn't Say That He Was Before Abraham Because Abraham Would Preexist Too.

C'mon Use Your Thinker And Stop Being So Juvenile.

As Far As Your Verse That Doesn't Fit Under These Verses, I've Already Provided The Answer And You Don't Listen. The President Is Also Greater Than Myself But That Doesn't Mean He Isn't A Man. It's A Matter Of Position.

"The Argument: Since Jesus said "my Father is greater than I," he cannot be Almighty God.

Response: Not necessarily! Jesus' statement in John 14:28 can be easily construed as a statement of submission. Jesus always claimed to be in submission to the Father. Being ‘in submission to’ someone does not necessarily equate to being less than the other.

For example, according to the Scriptures, the woman is in submission to the man, and the man is the head of the woman. However, in the eyes of God, they are equal. Jesus' submission to the Father is likened to a woman's submission to a man. 1Corinthians 11:3 states: "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." >/p>

1 Corinthians 11:3 provides the analogy that although the man and the woman are equal, the woman is in submission to the man. In like manner, although Jesus and His Father are equal, the Son is in submission to the Father.

For Christians, there is another logical explanation that can be provided in the Scriptures for John 14:28. Philippians 2:5-8 states that Jesus, being in the form of God, took upon Him the form of a servant:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

At the time Jesus said "the Father is greater than I," He had taken upon Himself the form of a man. He experienced all of the attributes and qualities of humanity. Therefore, during His life on earth, the Father was greater."

http://www.kingmessiahproject.com/jw_objections_Jesus_deity.html

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All I Can Say With The Following Quote Is OMG And ROTFLOL, Because It Reveals That The One Writing This Article Cannot Even Tell You What The Trinity Is, Let Alone Disprove It.

How Does One Refute Something He Has No Clue As To What It Is?

The Article Says:

'The expression `Son of God' does not imply divinity for Jesus any more than for anyone else given `power to become the children of God'. If Jesus is the son of God, that definitely shows him not to be God Himself. One cannot be both one's father and oneself at the same time.'

OMG, No Trinitarian Teaches That The Son Is The Father. But There Is One God In Three Persons.

Obviously, This Author Doesn't Even Understand That Jesus Has Been Shown To Be The Son Of God From All Eternity And By Nature While We Believers Become Sons Of God Through Adoption.

Please Tell Me This Author Knows The Biological Difference Between A Biological Son And An Adopted Son.

"12 "Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel

whom I called ;

I AM HE, I AM THE FIRST, I AM ALSO THE LAST. 13 "Surely My hand

founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens ; When I

call to them, they stand together....16 "

Come near to Me, listen to this : From the first I have

not spoken in secret,

From the time it took place, I WAS THERE. And now THE LORD GOD HAS SENT ME, and His Spirit." (Isaiah 48:12,13, 16)

"24 "Therefore I said to you that you

will die in your sins ; for unless you believe that

I am He,

you will die in your sins." (John 8:24)

"For God So Loved The World That He Gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON That Whosoever Believeth In Him Shall Not Perish But Have Everlasting Life." (John 3:16)

If This Son Isn't Unique, What Makes Him 'Only' Or 'Begotten.' ?

Now How Are We Sons?

"In the beginning was the Word,

and the Word was with God,

and the Word was God.

2 He was with God in the beginning.

3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

...11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

12 Yet to ALL WHO RECEIVED HIM (God The Word Made Flesh), to those who believed

in his name,

HE GAVE THE RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD

--13 children born not of natural descent,

nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh

and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory,

the glory of the One and Only,

who came from the Father, full of grace

and truth...." (John 1: NIV, Interlinear)

So This Says It All:

God The Word Made Flesh, The Only Begotten God/Son When Received As Such Makes Us sons Of God Through Faith And Spiritually Reborn.

You Cannot Separate The Receiving Of Him, From Who He Is Revealed To Be Here.

One Cannot Say That They Ate An Apple The Other Day, And When Asked About The Apple Say It's Round And Orange And Has A Tangy Taste To It. Obviously They Are Eating Something Like An Orange.

Imagine How Stupid It Would Be For The Person To Say, Well, Its An Orange To You, It's An Apple To Me.

The Jews Rejected Jesus For Who He Claimed To Be.

"He Came to His Own But His Own Received Him Not." (John 1)

"But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God."

70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?"

He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

71 Then they said, "Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips." (Luke 22)

They Understood What Being 'The Son Of God' Meant.

"23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit,

groan

inwardly as we wait eagerly

for our ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies." (Romans 8)

"Trinitarian claim: `Peter confessed, after Christ asked him who he was: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16).' McDowell 1973, 12. The same point is made on the following page with John 11:27 and John 1:49, where the phrase `Son of God' is used.

Unitarian Answer: The expression `Son of God' does not imply divinity for Jesus any more than for anyone else given `power to become the children of God'. If Jesus is the son of God, that definitely shows him not to be God Himself. One cannot be both one's father and oneself at the same time. If Jesus is the son of God, then he certainly is not God. Christians use the argument of species as opposed to personage in order to show that since the Father is of the species `God', so is the Son. The fallacy of this is that the Bible does not present the species of God, but the one personage of God. The word `son' is used in the Bible to mean much more than the biological offspring. The species argument assumes that Jesus is the biological offspring of God. But in fact this is not the Christian teaching. The Christian teaching itself, whatever it may in fact be, is not literal. No Christian believes that Jesus is the literal, biological son of God. The traditional Christian teaching is that Jesus' mother was a virgin. If God were the biological father of Jesus, Mary could not have been a virgin. So one of the metaphorical meanings of the word must be chosen.

A good example is in 1 Samuel 2:12: `Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the Lord.' Here the word `son' is used first literally, and then metaphorically. The margin says that a son of Belial is a wicked man. The verse itself goes on to explain that they `knew not the Lord'. Now Jesus, the `Son' of God, by the same token is precisely the opposite, that is, a righteous man, one who did know the Lord. Surely the Bible means more than this by the expression. It has to do with being the promised Messiah. But being the promised Messiah does not imply that Jesus is God. It implies only that he is the Christ.

On the other hand, it must be remembered that the phrase `Son of God' in the Bible is not limited to Jesus. See for example Genesis 6:2 and job 1:6. It cannot in itself imply deity."

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Answering Objections To Jesus' Deity.

http://www.kingmessiahproject.com/jw_objections_Jesus_deity.html

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In Response To The Next Argument In This Anti Christian Article, They Present The Idea Of Different Degrees Of Honor Saying That Jesus Didn't Receive The Kind Of Worship Reserved For God Alone. This Falls In Line With What The JW's Try To Do In Their NWT, Differentiating Between Worship And Obeisance Or What Catholics Do In Trying To Differentiate, For Protestants, The Difference Between Worship For God And Honor For Mary, But Is This Really Biblical To Make Such Distinctions?

"And the devil said to Him, "I will give You all this domain and

its glory ;

for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 "Therefore if You WORSHIP BEFORE ME, it shall all be Yours." 8 Jesus answered him, "It is written, '

YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'" (Luke 4)

The Greek Word For 'Worship' Used By Satan And Jesus Here Is PROSKENASAce

Now Let's Go To Hebrews Where God Commands The Angels To Worship Christ And See What That Word Is.

"6 And again,

when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith , And let all the angels of God WORSHIP HIM." (Hebrews 1:6)

PROSKENASATowsan

Same Greek Word Just Different Endings To Fit The Structure Of The Sentence.

Check It Out For Yourself Here: _____

This Verse I Have Shown Earlier Is A Quote From The Dead Sea Scrolls And Septuagint In Deuteronomy 32: 38,43, Which Says:

"Behold, Behold That I AM HE, And There Is No God Beside Me....Rejoice Ye Gentiles, With His People, And Let All The Angels Of God Worship Him." (Deut. 32:39,43, Septuagint, Dead Sea Scrolls)

Same Greek Word As Jesus Says Is Reserved For God Alone, That Is Shown Toward God In Deuteronomy And That God The Father Commands Of The Angels Toward Christ In Hebrews.

So Since We See That God Who Says 'I Am He' Is Being Worshipped By The Angels/Sons Of God In Deuteronomy, When It Is Commanded Of God The Father Toward Jesus, We See That This Shows That Jesus Is God.

The Word For Worship Here In The Septuagint And The Greek NT Is PROSKENASATowsan (The Same), Which Means That The Worship Only For God Himself Is Commanded Of The Father Toward God The Son.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/brenton/lxx/Page_277.html

The Article Then Claims:

"Even Matthew 2:2,8,11; 20:20; Luke 4:7; 24:52 are considered by Harper and Row's Analytical Greek Lexicon to be examples of the word in which it does not imply divinity. The line between the two meanings will therefore often be determined by the faith of the reader, and as such cannot be construed as proof of the deity of Jesus."

This Statement Is Pure Deception. Every Verse Here Except For The Last One Are Toward Jesus, Who's Been Shown Above To Be Worthy Of Worship Because He Is God, And One Time Of Satan Who Wants Worship As God. These Instances Are The Same Greek Word As Above And These People Worshipping Christ Recognize Jesus As God.

The Last Verse Is A Different Greek Word And Really Means 'Bless' And Its Directed Toward God.

The Only Way Harper And Row Would Say Something Like This Or Allow It To Be Said, Is Because They Don't Believe The Plain Sense Of Scripture Or They Are Not In Touch With Or Care What Is Being Said.

Now I Know The Author Of This Anti Christian Article Not To Be Sincere In His Quest For Truth.

Article Says:

"Trinitarian claim: `Jesus received worship as God (Matthew 14:33; 28:9) and sometimes even demanded to be worshipped as God (John 5:23; compare Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 5:8-14).' McDowell 1973, 12.

Unitarian Answer: The worship of gods in Greek is generally expressed by other words than the one translated `worship' in the New Testament. The Greek word translated `worship' in the New Testament seems to emphasise the bodily position of prostration involved in worship. As such it differs from the general usage of the Greek word, which implies giving honour by kissing or bowing to kiss the hand or even foot. This kind of worship in Greek generally was not for God or gods, but for people in high position from whom petitions are made. The worship of gods in Greek is generally expressed by other words. Most of the texts in the New Testament either refer clearly to worship of God or are somewhat ambiguous acts of homage. Some texts show clearly that the word does not imply divinity. Such an example is in Matthew 9:18. `While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead...' This abject homage of the ruler was certainly not the worship of Jesus as God. Dictionaries of New Testament Greek made even by Trinitarian scholars recognise this variety in the usage of the word. Even Matthew 2:2,8,11; 20:20; Luke 4:7; 24:52 are considered by Harper and Row's Analytical Greek Lexicon to be examples of the word in which it does not imply divinity. The line between the two meanings will therefore often be determined by the faith of the reader, and as such cannot be construed as proof of the deity of Jesus."

==========================================================================================

The Three Of Four Verses Quoted In This Anti Christian Article Prior To The Following Wouldn't Be Used By Someone Trying To Show The Deity Of Christ, So This Article Is Putting Up A Weak Front So They Can Knock It Down Easily.

But I Will Deal With The Next Verse That The Article Does Quote Appropriately.

This Next Argument From This Article Is Almost Unbelievable But Here Goes:

"Revelation 1:8. `I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.' This verse is supposed to attribute omnipotence to Jesus because of the reference to the word `almighty'. However, the speaker is not identified as Jesus. It is assumed to be Jesus because it is inferred that Jesus was the origin of the voice speaking the same words in Revelation 1:11. But these words are a quotation from Isaiah 41:4, where they are spoken by God Himself. Revelation 1:8 says these words are spoken by the Lord. The word kyrios in the original Greek sometimes refers to God, sometimes to Christ, and sometimes as a form of polite address to other human beings. At this point it is safe to assume on the basis of the context that the speaker is God Almighty and not Jesus Christ."

http://www.al-islam.org/islaminthebible/8.htm

This Article Walks Right Into Their Own Trap. The Article States, 'these words are a quotation from Isaiah 41:4, where they are spoken by God Himself.'

Lets Look At That Verse:

Who has performed and accomplished it, Calling forth the generations from the beginning? '

I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last.

I AM HE.' " (Isaiah 41:4)

Not Only Will We Find Out Who The Alpha And Omega Is But Who Says, 'I Am He.' Stay Tuned.

Remember These Words Spoken By Jesus:

"Therefore I said to you that you

will die in your sins ; for UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT I AM HE, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS." 25 So they were saying to Him, "Who are You?" Jesus said to them, '

What have I been saying to you from the beginning?" (John 8:24)

Any Real Bible Student Will Find This Articles Arguments Ridiculous. Lets Look At The Context Which Would Include The Following:

BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and

every eye will see Him, even those who PIERCED HIM; and all the tribes of the earth will

mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. 8 "I am

the Alpha and the Omega," SAYS THE LORD GOD, "

who is and who was and who

is to come, THE ALMIGHTY."

Notice That In This Translation Not Only Is Lord-Kurios Present But So Is God-Theos, And Confirmed In Nestles Greek Interlinear. But The Article Wants You To Believe That Lord-Kurios Is All That's There. But It Is Agreed That God Is Speaking Here, But Does That Exclude Christ? The Question In This Passage Is Whether Jesus Is Identified As 'Alpha And Omega' Thereby Making Him God.

But Any Article That Wants To Pull The Wool Over People Eyes Will Make A Point Of Saying That God Didn't Really Mean What He Said And Not Look At The Context.

Now Lets Go To Verse Seventeen Of The Same Chapter Of Revelation.

17 When I saw Him, I

fell at His feet like a dead man. And He

placed His right hand on me, saying, "

Do not be afraid ;

I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST, 18 and the

living One; and I WAS DEAD, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have

the keys of death and of Hades.

Here It Is Clear That Jesus Is Speaking...'the

living One; and I

was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore' And Jesus Says, '

I am the first and the last.'

What's The Difference Between Being The Alpha (First Letter In The Greek Alphabet), Omega (The Last Letter) And 'The First And The Last'?

First And Last In Greek Is 'Protos' And 'Eschatos'

Now Lets Go To Revelation 22 Which Says:

"Behold,

I am COMING QUICKLY, and My

reward is with Me,

to render to every man

according to what he has done . 13 "I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, THE FIRST AND THE LAST, THE BEGINNING AND THE END." (Revelation 22)

We Know Christ Identified Himself As The First And The Last In Revelation One, Now This Being Identifies Himself As That And Alpha, Omega, Beginning And The End. We Also Know The One Who Is Coming Quickly Is Jesus Himself (Zechariah 12:10; Acts 1:11), But God In Revelation One Identified Himself As Alpha And Omega. Hmmm

Now Let's Go To The Old Testament And Notice The CAPS.

"Thus says the LORD, the

King of Israel AND his

Redeemer, the LORD of hosts : 'I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST, And there is no God

besides Me." (Isaiah 44:6)

Sound Like Two Talking Above.

"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel

whom I called ;

I AM HE, I AM THE FIRST, I AM ALSO THE LAST. 13 "Surely My hand

founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens ; When I

call to them, they stand together....16 "

Come near to Me, listen to this : From the first I have

not spoken in secret,

FROM THE TIME IT TOOK PLACE, I WAS THERE . And now

the Lord

GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit." (Isaiah 48:12,13,16)

Note That The One Calling Himself tHE First And Last Is Divine, And Christ Identified Himself As The First And The Last In Revelation One. The Lord God Sends This Divine One And His Spirit. Hmm

"Therefore I said to you that YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS; FOR UNESS YOU BELIEVE I AM HE, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS." 25 So they were saying to Him, "Who are You?" Jesus said to them, "

What have I been saying to you from the beginning?" (John 8:24ff)

If You Still Don't Get It I Have Some Swampland I Want To Sell Ya.

While We Are On The Subject Of The Identity Of He Who Also Says, 'I Am He', Which Above Is Christ Himself, Here Is Another Set Of Verses Only In The Septuagint And The Dead Sea Scrolls And Not The Masoretic Text.

"Behold, Behold That I AM HE, And There Is No God Beside Me....Rejoice Ye Gentiles, With His People, And Let All The Angels Of God Worship Him."

Deut. 32:39,43 The Greek Septuagint:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/brenton/lxx/Page_277.html

The Writer Of Hebrews Is Referring To Deuteronomy 32:43 In The Greek Septuagint And The Dead Sea Scrolls, Which Speaks Of The Worship Of God By The Angels/Sons Of God. The Writer Of Hebrews Is Simply Showing That Jesus Is God Because The Angels Of God Are Worshipping Him, And Christ Himself Says The Only One That Should Be Worshipped In God Himself, So Therefore Jesus Is God.

"And the devil said to Him, "I will give You all this domain and

its glory ;

for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 "Therefore if You

worship before me, it shall all be Yours." 8 Jesus answered him, "It is written, '

YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'" (Luke 4)

So Clearly For Anyone Who Isn't Past The Point Of No Return, Jesus Is God, Alpha And Omega, The First And The Last And The One Who Says, 'I Am He' And Anyone Who Rejects This 'Will Die In Their Sins.' (John 8:24)

============================================================

Thomas, You Haven't Provided Any Refutation, Only Made Up Greek Rules, Avoiding The Main Body Of My Refutations As Shown In My Post Above. So Your Refutations Are Only In Your Mind.

Thomas Says:

The final point in refutation is to point out that the article focuses on ambiguity as evidence. In fact, the point of the essay is not to show what the Bible is saying about Jesus, but rather to show that the Bible is NOT saying what Trinitarians claim it is saying. If you wished to determine what the Bible is actually saying about Jesus, we should chose the many texts that show him unambiguously not to be God Almighty, and there are many such available, some of which are found in other chapters of the book Islam in the Bible, from which this essay is also taken.

Bj Maxwell Thomas, You Have Avoided The Main Body Of My Arguments And That Is God In Hebrew And Greek Not Just Hebrew, And That You Not Only Have An OT To Deal With, But A Septuagint And A Greek NT When Dealing With Hebrews One Calling Jesus God. You Haven't Touched That All But Rather Focused On My Other Points That Simply Show That Your Article Is Inaccurate In Many Details Not Just The Major Points.

Bj Maxwell Article Says:

"The third quotation (Hebrews 1:6) is from a non-Biblical Jewish tradition which also appears in the Qur'an: `And let all the angels of God worship him.' The personage primarily referred to in the original tradition is Adam, to whom the angels are commanded to prostrate."

The Writer Of Hebrews Is Referring To Deuteronomy 32:43 In The Greek Septuagint And The Dead Sea Scrolls, Which Speaks Of The Worship Of God By The Angels. The Writer Of Hebrews Is Simply Showing That Jesus Is God Because The Angels Of God Are Worshipping Him, And Christ Himself Says The Only One That Should Be Worshipped In God Himself, So Therefore Jesus Is God.

"And the devil said to Him, "I will give You all this domain and its glory ; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 "Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours." 8 Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' "(Luke 4)

Deut. 32:43 The Greek Septuagint:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/brenton/lxx/Page_277.html

Septuagint Version of the Old Testament with an English Translation | Christian Classics Ethereal Li www.ccel.org

Bj Maxwell Thomas Must Think That Majoring On Minor Points Will Make Everyone Forget The Major Points So Here It Is Again:

Bj Maxwell By Reducing The Word 'God' To Just Judge Or Mighty One, They Show Why It Wouldn't Have Served Any Purpose For Jesus To Just Simply Say, 'I Am God', Because They Would Have Just Watered Down The Word 'God.'

So Christ And His Followers Are Obligated To Go The Extra Ten Miles And Show That Christ Has All The Characteristics Of God As Well. That's More Difficult For Anti Christians To Water Down And Ignore.

The Problem For This Article Is That Looking At The Hebrew Is Not Enough. Jesus And His Followers Quoted The Greek Septuagint As Well. In Fact The Writer Of The Book Of Hebrews Quoted The Greek Septuagint When He Said, 'A Body Thou Hast Prepared.' (Hebrews 10:5-7) Which Is A Fulfillment Of Psalm 40:6-8 And Only Found In The Greek Septuagint.

So This Anti Christian Article Must Not Only Water Down 'God' In Hebrew But God In Greek As Well, And Seeing That Our Oldest NT MSS Are In Greek These Muslims Must Water Down Theos, Which Is Greek For God.

So In The Septuagint And The NT, It Calls Jesus 'Theos', Which Is God i.e., Theo-Logy...The Study Of God, Not The Study Of Judges Or Mighty Ones.

And In Verse Nine 'Theos' Is Used For Jesus, The Anointed One And His God, The Father.

This Is Confirmed In The Septuagint, And If One Is A Christian They Believe The NT Was Inspired Of God As Well, So This Muslim Article Mistakenly Thinks That Only Dealing With Hebrew Will Do The Job. Such Is Not The Case.

=======================================================

Article Says:

"The third quotation (Hebrews 1:6) is from a non-Biblical Jewish tradition which also appears in the Qur'an: `And let all the angels of God worship him.' The personage primarily referred to in the original tradition is Adam, to whom the angels are commanded to prostrate."

The Writer Of Hebrews Is Referring To Deuteronomy 32:43 In The Greek Septuagint And The Dead Sea Scrolls, Which Speaks Of The Worship Of God By The Angels. The Writer Of Hebrews Is Simply Showing That Jesus Is God Because The Angels Of God Are Worshipping Him, And Christ Himself Says The Only One That Should Be Worshipped In God Himself, So Therefore Jesus Is God.

"And the devil said to Him, "I will give You all this domain and

its glory ;

for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 "Therefore if You

worship before me, it shall all be Yours." 8 Jesus answered him, "It is written, '

YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' "(Luke 4)

Deut. 32:43 The Greek Septuagint:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/brenton/lxx/Page_277.html

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The Next Quote From This Islamic Article Is A Perfect Example Of Deceiving You Into Thinking They Have Said Something From Their Many Words, But In Fact Have Said Very Little. They Essentially Say That Most Of Hebrews One Shouldn't Be Taken Seriously In Relation To The Deity Of Christ And Then They Choose What They Are Going To Focus On.

By Reducing The Word 'God' To Just Judge Or Mighty One, They Show Why It Wouldn't Have Served Any Purpose For Jesus To Just Simply Say, 'I Am God', Because They Would Have Just Watered Down The Word 'God.'

So Christ And His Followers Are Obligated To Go The Extra Ten Miles And Show That Christ Has All The Characteristics Of God As Well. That's More Difficult For Anti Christians To Water Down And Ignore.

The Problem For This Article Is That Looking At The Hebrew Is Not Enough. Jesus And His Followers Quoted The Greek Septuagint As Well. In Fact The Writer Of The Book Of Hebrews Quoted The Greek Septuagint When He Said, 'A Body Thou Hast Prepared.' (Hebrews 10:5-7) Which Is A Fulfillment Of Psalm 40:6-8 And Only Found In The Greek Septuagint.

So This Anti Christian Article Must Not Only Water Down 'God' In Hebrew But God In Greek As Well, And Seeing That Our Oldest NT MSS Are In Greek These Muslims Must Water Down Theos, Which Is Greek For God.

So In The Septuagint And The NT, It Calls Jesus 'Theos', Which Is God i.e., Theo-Logy...The Study Of God, Not The Study Of Judges Or Mighty Ones.

And In Verse Nine 'Theos' Is Used For Jesus, The Anointed One And His God, The Father.

This Is Confirmed In The Septuagint, And If One Is A Christian They Believe The NT Was Inspired Of God As Well, So This Muslim Article Mistakenly Thinks That Only Dealing With Hebrew Will Do The Job. Such Is Not The Case.

Article Says:

"The first, Psalm 2:7 (Hebrews 1:5a), was originally spoken to David."

It Was Spoken To David, Because David Wrote Most Of The Psalms, But Not About David And We See Its Fulfillment In Acts 13:33 Which Says,

"We tell you the good newsHYPERLINK

33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, BY RAISING UP JESUS.

As it is written in the SECOND PSALM: " 'You are MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BECOME YOUR FATHER.

' 34 The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words: " 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.' 35 So it is stated elsewhere: " 'You will not let your Holy One see decay.' 36 "For when DAVID had served God's purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep;

he was buried with his fathers

and HIS BODY DECAYED. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead

did not see decay." (Acts 13)

Nothing Here About This Prophecy Speaking About Anyone But Messiah, After He Was Raised From The Dead. David Saw Corruption And The Breaking Down Of His Body, Christ Did Not.

The Article Then Alleges:

But Of Course They Do Not Provide The Link Or Reference To Show Verse Six Is From A 'Non-Biblical Jewish Tradition', We're Just Supposed To Take Their Word For It And Who Cares What A Book Written In The Sixth Century A.D. Plagiarizes From The Old Testament?

There Is No Tradition That Precedes This Statement In The Bible, It's Just Deception, So There's Nothing About Adam Being The Original One Being Worshipped, Except By Maybe The Mormons Who Concocted The Adam God Doctrine. There Are Many Similarities Between Islam And Mormonism.

This Is Just So They Can Say That There Really Is No Difference Between Adam And Christ.

The Fact Is That Adam Never Could Say This:

"Now, Father,

glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had

with You before the world was." (John 17:5)

So The Muslim Article Finally Picks A Verse In Hebrews One That They Can Handle And Where It Is A Toss Up Whether This Is Referring To The Father Or Son And Then Dismantles It, While Ignoring All The Rest Of The Verses.

Article Says:

"3. Hebrews 1:8. `But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.' This is one of a series of quotations from the Old Testament. The first, Psalm 2:7 (Hebrews 1:5a), was originally spoken to David. The second, 2 Samuel 7:14 (Hebrews 1:5b), was also spoken to David about his `seed', primarily Solomon, but no doubt also secondarily and prophetically about the Messiah. The third quotation (Hebrews 1:6) is from a non-Biblical Jewish tradition which also appears in the Qur'an: `And let all the angels of God worship him.' The personage primarily referred to in the original tradition is Adam, to whom the angels are commanded to prostrate. The word `worship' in Hebrews refers to prostration before a high personage such as a king. Then comes Psalm 45:6-7 the text quoted by McDowell from Hebrews 1:8. This text was originally part of the king's wedding invocation. The word Elohim, translated `God', is applied to the king. As such, it should probably best be translated as judge' or `exalted one'. This is especially apparent from the fact that the true God Almighty is referred to in Psalm 45:7 as a different entity.

McDowell does not refer to Hebrews 1:10, which is in fact the only verse used to prove the trinity demanding careful investigation. The quotation is from Psalm 102:2527. It is the only one of the original quotations which was originally directed to God Himself.

Let it first be noted that the quotation is not directed to Jesus in Hebrews, but is a continuation of the expression in Hebrews 1:8 pros or `in reference to' Jesus. This is in contrast to sentences spoken `to' someone, as in Hebrews 1:5. These phrases are not therefore spoken `to' Jesus, but are `in reference' to him.

The second point is that the context clearly has as its purpose to exalt Jesus Christ above even the angels. All of the quotations serve that purpose. They refer to aspects or events in the life of Jesus which show him to be in some way superior to the angels. Psalm 102 is the last of a series of martyrdom Psalms. The clear inference in this chapter is that after all of the glorious aspects and events in Jesus' life that show him to be superior to the angels, there is finally his martyrdom. This too shows his superiority and leads into the subject of the second chapter of Hebrews which is in fact that self-sacrifice.

To those of us not accustomed to the liturgical use of the Psalms, this explanation is not immediately clear. But to the Hebrews to whom these words were written, nothing could be more natural. The whole panorama of the martyrdom liturgy immediately floods into the Hebrew mind when these words are encountered. No better introduction to chapter two could have been invented.

It is not stated that Jesus is God. Superiority to the angels does not necessarily imply that Jesus is God Almighty. The chapter deals in every possible superlative, but does not state Jesus to be God. Even verse three makes a clear distinction between the being which is Jesus and the being which is God, referred to here as `Majesty on high'. "

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Really Hot As Hello

New Lyrics By Bj Maxwell

Thankyou Lord For This Gift

Feel Free To Post Unaltered Anywhere.

Old Lyrics In ' '

New Lyrics In Black

Links In Green

To Sing Karaoke Just Hold Down Shift Key, Click Here, Minimize Then Sing New Lyrics Below:

Really Hot As, Hell-O

New Lyrics

They're A Just Mad About Krishna (That's Me)

So They're Just Followin Me (Krishna)

Now I'm All Into Sulphur

So Join My Yellow Jello Party

I'm Really Hot As Hello, -(He's Into Tricks)

Will You Join My Bordello-(He Tricks The Chicks)

I'm That Blue Skin-ned Fellow-(He Looks Like A Chick)

I'm Just Mad about Gropis

And Gopis Are Mad About Me.

Like A Pied Piper I Took Their Clothing (You Mean Stole)

While They All Were Swimming

They Say I'm The Enjoyer

Christ Says I'm The Destroyer

(John 10)

And Just A Blue Stained Voyeur (2 Timothy 3)

God Says The Angel Of Light

Leads The Saffron People Down Stairs

Christ Said, The Father Of Lies

Indignations Cup I Will Bare.

I'm Really Hot As Hello-(He's Into Tricks)

Will You Join My Bordello-(He Tricks The Chicks)

A Cunning Kind Of Fellow-(Demonic Pimp)

(Gen. 3)

With Forbidden Banana (Most Tempting Fruit)

I Led The First Woman Astray (Her Name Was Eve)

Now I'm Bound For Gehenna

Bound And Chained Hell Fire Away

It Looks Like Yellow Jello

But Makes Me Scream And Bellow.

It's Really Hot As Hell,-ohhhhhhhh!!!!

New Lyrics By Bj Maxwell

04/28/2013;07/11/2013

Saffron:

Also, saffron YELLOW. yellow-orange.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Saffron?s=t

Picture Of Hare Krishna Devotee:

"When any one, irrespective of age, is presented to us with BLUE SKIN, YELLOW CLOTHS and a FLUTE in the hands we EQUATE THE PERSON WITH LORD KRISHNA. Krishna therefore depicts three properties symbolized with colours BLUE and YELLOW and a FLUTE."

http://ww.itimes.com/blog/why-krishna-is-shown-wearing-yellow-cloths-on-a-blue-body

Pied Piper:

2. ( sometimes lowercase ) a person who induces others to follow or imitate him or her, especially by means of false or extravagant promises.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pied+Piper?s=t

Sulphur:

a. an allotropic nonmetallic element, occurring free in VOLCANIC REGIONS and in combined state in gypsum, pyrite, and galena. The stable YELLOW rhombic form converts on heating to monoclinic needles. ...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sulphur?s=t

Brimstone:

2. sulfur.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bRIMSTONE?s=t

Developing My Kata