Arguments Against The Trinity Trounced

Arguments Against The Trinity Trounced.

I Will Be Adding My Answers As I Hear New Arguments.

Argument:

The Teaching Of The Triunity Contradicts The Shema...'Hear O Israel, The Lord Our God, The Lord Is One.' (Deuteronomy 6:4)

Answer:

It Doesn't, Only Those That Don't Understand Biblical Oneness Would Say Such A Thing.

Notice All The Scriptural Examples Where 'Oneness' Involves A Unified Plurality.

One Body (Ephesians 4) But Many Members

One Baptism (Ephesians 4) Spirit And Water Baptism...(Romans 6; 1 Peter 3)

One God (Deuteronomy 6:4) Plurality Of Persons In The One God. "Let Us" (Genesis 1:26)

Argument:

The Trinity Was Invented At The Council Of Nicea.

Answer:

No, A Creed Was 'Formulated' There To Combat Heretics Like Arius Of Alexandria Who Were Teaching Something Akin To The Jehovah's Witness Doctrine That Jesus Was Not God.

The Bible Teaches The Triunity Of God And One Only Need To Go There. (Isaiah 48:12-16; Genesis 1:26; John 1:1-3,12,14,18; Hebrews 1)

Argument:

The Trinity Has Pagan Origins.

Answer:

The Triune God Precedes Any Pagan Event Or Teaching, So If He Is The Triune God, He Precedes Any Pagan Doctrine That Tries To Imitate Him.

Often Oneness Folks See Tritheistic Teaching In Pagan Religions And Confuse That With The Triunity Of God.

The Trinity Is Three Persons In One God, Not Three Gods.

Argument:

"The Divinely Promised Messiah was simply another manifestation of YAHVEH, the Protector of Israel - this time taking truly human shape by birth through an Israelite woman. This manifestation was called "The Son of God" during His human life time on earth, 2000 years ago. There never ever was a pre-existent "Son next to a Father God" before His human birth."

http://www.revelations.org.za/WrongTrinity.htm

Answer:

God The Word Was With The Father Prior To His Incarnation And Prior To The Founding Of The World.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.... 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- ...18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." (NIV, John 1)

"Let Us Make Man In Our Image And After Our Likeness." (Genesis 1:26)

"But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." 10 He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands." (Hebrews 1)

Quote From Psalm 45

God The Word Always Was And Existed With The Father.

This Is Where The 'Oneness' Folks Start Exchanging The Plain Sense Of Scripture For Another Sense.

Argument?

"Is there any other God besides Me? ... I know of none". Isa. 44:8

Answer:

I Don't Know Of Any Other God Either!

Jesus Is Another Person In The Godhead And There Is Only One God.

It's Unfortunate That This Is So Difficult For Some To Understand.

Argument:

Isa. 44:6

"I am the First and the Last; there is no other God besides Me."

"Notice: YAHVEH is clearly using singular terms and speaks of Himself as "I", "Me", etc. Trinitarians interpret this to mean that there is no other God besides the 'triune God' - and they insist that there are three distinctly separate Beings. Those who are advanced in their studies, have to admit that the Bible teaches that the Messiah is also the Creator (John 1:1, 10; Col. 1:15,16; Heb, 1: 2, 8 - l0) and "without Him was not anything made . . . " They claim, though, that the Messiah was 'with' the Father at Creation. Why then, does the Almighty YAHVEH have no knowledge of this?"

http://www.revelations.org.za/WrongTrinity.htm

Answer:

I Like The KJV Which Makes It Sound Like Two.

'6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, AND HIS REDEEMER the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.'

Actually Isaiah Makes Several Mentions Of The 'First And The Last'

Here Is Another One:

"12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last." (Isaiah 48)

But Then Notice What This Divine One Says Immediately Following:

13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together. 14 "Come together, all of you, and listen: Which of the idols has foretold these things? The Lord's chosen ally will carry out his purpose against Babylon; his arm will be against the Babylonians. 15 I, even I, have spoken; yes, I have called him. I will bring him, and he will succeed in his mission.

16 "Come near me and listen to this: "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there." And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me, with his Spirit.

The Last Verse Says, 'From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there.'

This Divine One Says, 'I Have Not Spoken In Secret; At The Time It Happens, 'I Am There.'

Can We Deny That This One Speaking Is God?

Then He Says, "And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me, with his Spirit" (Isaiah 48)

If The One Being Sent Is Divine And The One Sending Is Divine And There Is Only One God Then All Three Persons Here Must Be That One God.

From The Masoretic Text Of The Jewish Publication Society:

"16 Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this: From the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord GOD hath sent me, and His spirit. {P}"

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1048.htm

Argument?

11 "This is what the Lord says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands? 12 It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts. (Isaiah 45)

Answer:

Here I'm Not Sure About How Many Are Talking:

1) The Holy One Of Israel, And Its Maker

1) The Holy One Of Israel

2) And Its Maker

"My own hands stretched out the heavens "

Since At This Point God Doesn't Have Hands, I'm Not Sure What This Is Supposed To Mean.

"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy. 8 All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia; from palaces adorned with ivory the music of the strings makes you glad." (Psalm 45)

Masoretic Text From The Jewish Publication Society 1917:

8 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; {N}
therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Psalm 45)

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2645.htm

Argument?

"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. 11 I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior. 12 I have revealed and saved and proclaimed-- I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "that I am God. 13 Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?" (Isaiah 43)

Answer:

Does This Mean That No Other Being Can Claim To Be A Saviour?

"5 And the LORD gave Israel a deliverer, so that they went out from under the hand of the Arameans; and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime." (2 Kings 13, Masoretic Text, Jewish Publication Society)

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt09b13.htm

20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and He will send them a saviour, and a defender, who will deliver them.

21 And the LORD shall make Himself known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day; yea, they shall worship with sacrifice and offering, and shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and shall perform it. (Isaiah 19, Ibid)

So In Other Words 'No Other Saviour' Separate From God's Power Working Through Them.

So If God The Father Sends God The Word To Take On Flesh And Be Our Saviour, It Is Not Without Precedent.

Argument:

"May we then also ask: Why did Abraham Moses, Jacob and other holy men of God never mention the 'co -existent' God or "Son of God"? Why did they worship YAHVEH alone?

The concept which we present holds the answer. There was no co-existent Son! YAHVEH took upon Himself the shape of man in order to visit earth and bring reconciliation as "the Sacrificial Lamb of God" - and that does not make of Him a Lamb!"

http://www.revelations.org.za/WrongTrinity.htm

Answer:

"5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (John 17:5)

Christ Here Didn't Say With The Glory You Had With Yourself Before The World Began.

For Anyone To Reject The Plain Sense Of This Scripture Would Be Sheer Unbelief.

As Far As Any OT Men Recognizing The Preincarnate Son.

"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine; and he was priest of God the Most High.

19 And he blessed him, and said: 'Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Maker of heaven and earth; "

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0114.htm

The LORD saith unto my lord: 'Sit thou at My right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.'

4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent: 'Thou art a priest for ever {N}
after the manner of Melchizedek.'

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt26b0.htm

"24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was alarmed, and rose up in haste; he spoke and said unto his ministers: 'Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?' They answered and said unto the king: 'True, O king.' 25 He answered and said: 'Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.' {S} " (Daniel 3)

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3403.htm

The Appearance Of The Fourth Is Like A Son Of The Gods.

Concerning Abraham:

"And the LORD appeared unto him by the terebinths of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

2 and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him; and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed down to the earth, 3 and said: 'My lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant. ..

9 And they said unto him: 'Where is Sarah thy wife?' And he said: 'Behold, in the tent.' 10 And He said: 'I will certainly return unto thee when the season cometh round; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son.' And Sarah heard in the tent door, which was behind him.-- 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, and well stricken in age; it had ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.-- 12 And Sarah laughed within herself, saying: 'After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?' 13 And the LORD said unto Abraham: 'Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying: Shall I of a surety bear a child, who am old

16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked out toward Sodom; and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. 17 And the LORD said: 'Shall I hide from Abraham that which I am doing; 18 seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 19 For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of the LORD, to do righteousness and justice; to the end that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which He hath spoken of him.' 20 And the LORD said: 'Verily, the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and, verily, their sin is exceeding grievous. 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto Me; and if not, I will know.' 22 And the men turned from thence, and went toward Sodom; but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

32 And he said: 'Oh, let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once. Peradventure ten shall be found there.' And He said: 'I will not destroy it for the ten's sake.' 33 And the LORD went His way, as soon as He had left off speaking to Abraham; and Abraham returned unto his place. (Genesis 18)

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0118.htm

Did Abraham See God The Word Who Proceeded From Jehovah?

"Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." 57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" 58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds." (John 8)

Bj Maxwell

12/28/2007